Transcript of Judy Holliday's Testimony - Page 8
Mr. Arens: What do you think about the McCarran Act?
Mr. Rifkind: Mr. Chairman?
Senator Watkins: You said you could tell me about a lot more, and you have named one.
Miss Holliday: When people approached me on issues I believed in. However, in a shallow way because as I admitted, I didn't understand much or read much or go into much. When they appealed emotionally as being just, as being democratic, or being a protest against something that was happening that was not democratic, I said yes.
Senator Watkins: That was a long time ago. That was not recently?
Miss Holliday: I don't say "Yes" to anything now except cancer, polio, cerebral palsy, and things like that.
Senator Watkins: You said there were a lot more, and you said that you could name them. Now you have told us about this one, about making this recording.
Miss Holliday: That is right.
Senator Watkins: Who asked you to do that?
Miss Holliday: A secretary. I think most of the things came ----
Senator Watkins: Can you answer that or not? Who asked you to make that recording? Somebody requested you, you did not just volunteer, did you?
Miss Holliday: Oh, no.
Senator Watkins: Who asked you?
Miss Holliday: It was one of many things that I was called up for by people who said, "I am calling up for this committee."
Mr. Arens: When was that? What year? Mr. Chairman while he is finding that out I would like to have this identified as exhibit 2 for reference in the record.
Senator Watkins: It may be received.
(Exhibit No. 2 was marked and filed for the record.)
Senator Watkins: I would like to pursue this line because Miss Holliday is apparently willing to help the committee on some that we have not heard about. You said they were investigating, your lawyers and others were investigating, and there were a lot more of them?
Miss Holliday: Let's refer to the record. I paid for a lawyer, too, you know, not Judge Rifkind, but last year. I wanted to find out all about it.
Mr. Arens: That was at a time when you were being hurt financially by your Communist-front activities?
Miss Holliday: No; I hadn't been hurt by them.
Mr. Rifkind: Sardi's some time in March of 1948.
Senator Watkins: You see, that has not been very long ago.
Miss Holliday: No.
Senator Watkins: And that has been since we have been having a lot of difficulty with the Communists.
Miss Holliday: How are you going to know that people who want to stop censorship are Communists?
Senator Watkins: The people who put that to you were people who are advocating the overthrow of this Government by force and violence.
Miss Holliday: Yes.
Senator Watkins: If their books intend to incite people to do that very thing, do you not think the country ought to take notice of that?
Miss Holliday: Yes; but I think they should always know what they are thinking.
Senator Watkins: If they are thinking of killing somebody and they are urging the killing of somebody, do you think that ought to be published?
Miss Holliday: Then you can stop them.
Mr. Arens: What do you think about the McCarran Act?
Mr. Rifkind: Mr. Chairman, should she be called on to answer that question?
Senator Watkins: Not for the moment.
Mr. Arens: Mr. Chairman, I want to submit to the Chairman here as counsel to the committee that that question is very pertinent.
Miss Holliday: Then I will answer you.
Senator Watkins: I will allow it in a moment, but I wish counsel would let me get this cleared up, for the witness to tell about these others, because it is all on one subject, and then I will rule on that question.
Mr. Rifkind: Do you want me to tell you what I have here?
Senator Watkins: Let her tell. Judge Rifkind is not to tell you. He is not to coach you in any way, and he does not want to, I do not believe.
Miss Holliday: The Moscow Art Theater.
Senator Watkins: You said there were a lot of others?
Miss Holliday: Yes.
Senator Watkins: I am very much interested if there were a lot of others that we have not even heard about.
Miss Holliday: I guess there aren't a lot of others.
Senator Watkins: That is what you said. I am only taking your word for it. I wanted to ask before we left that subject.
Mr. Rifkind: I am willing to tell you exactly what our investigation shows if that will help you.
Senator Watkins: If we need you Judge, we may call you as a witness, but I want to know what Miss Holliday knows. She has taken the position that recently she reads everything and does not agree to anything. I am wondering whether she was really a dupe and just signed out of the goodness of her heart or whether she was associated in these movements. That is what we are interested in finding out because it is important for the country to know whether people in public life, people who are in a position to influence public opinion, what their position is. That is why I am going to allow him to ask you what you think about the McCarran Act, because it is important that we know. We started out by giving a list of these, and you said there were a lot of others. Now you mention this Moscow Art Theater. What did you find out about that one?
Miss Holliday: That was one that I did.
Senator Watkins: You did find out?
Miss Holliday: You started out by saying, "You didn't admit most of your associations." In my mind it was that I had admitted most of my associations.
Senator Watkins: In your own mind now you think that the questions we have asked you about your associations, your answers were that you allowed them to use your name in one way or another?
Miss Holliday: Whatever answers I gave were the answers that I knew to be true. But in my mind it seems to me that I have admitted more than I have denied, that is what I was trying to say.
Senator Watkins: I was wondering if you had made any reservations in your own mind when you were denying at the time or whether you felt, "I might have, but I am not telling."
Miss Holliday: No; I am telling the truth as far as I know the truth.
Senator Watkins: I am not saying that you are not. Now you started telling us about the Moscow Art Theater, what about the others?
Miss Holliday: You heard about the Moscow Theater?
Senator Watkins: You said there were many more?
Miss Holliday: You are going to ask me something?
Senator Watkins: I am going to permit counsel to ask that question.
Mr. Arens: What is your attitude about the McCarran Act?
Miss Holliday: I can tell what my attitude is. I said to Judge Rifkind last night and to my husband, suppose they ask me what the McCarran Act is and I don't know? They said, "If you don't know, say you don't know." I said, "Tell me what it is." They said, "No; you are going to have enough to do without suddenly finding out what an act is and suddenly formulating" ----
Mr. Arens: You had a little session with them last night with respect to your testimony today?
Miss Holliday: We met last night; yes. I don't know what the McCarran Act is.
Mr. Arens: Have you contributed to a group known as the National Committee to Repeal the McCarran Act?
Miss Holliday: No, I haven't.
Senator Watkins: You mean that you have not? Do you know anything about that group?
Miss Holliday: No.
Senator Watkins: You never heard about it?
Miss Holliday: No; and have not contributed.
Senator Watkins: You do not any friends who have contributed to such a movement?
Miss Holliday: No.
Senator Watkins: Have you ever urged directly or indirectly the repeal of the McCarran Act?
Miss Holliday: No.
Senator Watkins: Have you protested against it?
Miss Holliday: No, I haven't.
Senator Watkins: Did you not hear 2 or 3 years ago that the McCarran Act was before the Congress and was being debated and was finally passed?
Miss Holliday: Yes.
Senator Watkins: You read the papers at that time?
Miss Holliday: Yes.
Senator Watkins: You knew the general idea was to register the Communists?
Miss Holliday: Now you told me. Frankly I was wondering whether it was about deporting people. Is that part of it?
Mr. Rifkind: There is a McCarran immigration bill now pending.
Senator Watkins: I am talking about this matter of making them register. That did ring a bell with you, did it not?
Miss Holliday: Sure.
Senator Watkins: Tell us what you know about it.
Miss Holliday: I realize that I knew about it but forgot about it.
Mr. Arens: Do you think that Communist organizations ought to be required to register?
Miss Holliday: Yes, I do. That is all a part of knowing what they are about.
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